Post a response to the quote below from p. 270 of your Les Miserables packet. It's a dense quote with archaic diction and style, so give yourself a bit of time to unpack the words. Be sure to first write what you think the quote means, then write which group (the "barbarian" or the "other men") you would choose, and finally explain why. Feel free to respond to other students' responses, too.
"Savage. We must explain this word. What was the aim of those bristling men who in the demiurgic days of revoluationary chaos, raged, howling, wild with tomahawk raised, and pike aloft, rushed over old overturned Paris? They desired the end of oppressions, the end of tyrannies, and the end of the sword, labour for man, instruction for children, social gentleness for woman, liberty, equality, fraternity, bread for all, ideas for all. The Edenisation of the world, Progress; this holy, good, and gentle thing, progress, pushed to the wall and beside themselves, they demanded, terrible, half naked, a club in their grasp, and a roar in their mouth. They were savages, yes; but the savages of civilisation.
They proclaimed the right furiously; they desired, were it through fear and trembling, to force the human race into paradise. They seemed barbarians, and they were saviours. With the mask of night they demanded the light.
In contrast with these men, wild, we admit, and terrible, but wild and terrible for the good, there are other men, smiling, embroidered gilded, beribboned, bestarred, in silk stokings, in white feathers, in yellow gloves, in varnished shoes, who, leaning upon a velvet table by the corner of a marble mantel, softly insist upon the maintenance and the preservation of the past, the middle ages, deivine right, fanaticism, ignorance, slavery, the death penalty, and war, gloifying politely and in mild tones the sabre, the stake, and the scaffold. As for us, if we were compelled to choose between the barbarians of civilization, and the civilisees of barbarism, we would choose the barbarians."
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The civilized people think highly of themselves because of their finances. They wear their fancy clothes and lacy garments and think they are much better than everyone. The barbarians are more humble people. They take what is given to them without question. The upper class, or civilized people, look down on them like they are animals, when in fact they are only trying to live. Their attitudes are far more positive and thankful. They are called barbarians because of the things that have not been given to them by the civilized people. Especially at the time of Les Miserables, the poor were not treated like people, but like animals unable to fend for themselves. There were no human rights for them; they could get so poor that they live on the streets and could be kicked without the government even noticing, let alone caring. Hugo says he would rather be a barbarian because they are more humble people.
The barbarians of civilization are the revolutionaries. They may be fighting violently and wildly, but they are fighting for a good cause: Freedom and equal rights. The other men are those who are civilized and do not fight themselves, but they support bad causes such as slavery and ignorance. If I had to choose, I would choose the barbarians. I would prefer to not fight so brutally and passionately, but it would be the right thing to do, so in the end I would do it. It would help oppressed people. I certainly would not join the other men, because although they don't seem evil on the outside, they support corruption and cruelty.
I think that the qoute means that everyone is a barbarian inside and that certain events will help bring that barbarian out. I would also have to side with the the civilized barbarians because they are fighting for therer rights and not for random reasons. the civilized barbarians are fighting injustaces that were placed opun them they are not fighting for no reason. I know that many people would be in the position of the civilized barbarians because if your rights were being suprsed you would want to stop that.
This quote is refering to the revolutionists("barbarians") who are of liberal thinking, versus the conservatives("other men"). It said that while the revolutionists were so "barbaric", they were doing it in the name of civilization. They wanted reform and were fighting to do so. The consveratives are portrayed as "higher status" people, almost like they are above the chaos. They had nice clothing, polished shoes, and were sitting at a table covered in velvet. These "other men" looked civilized enough, but obviously were barbaric themselves--their thinking and ideas were against the revolutionaries, those who were fighting for a better world order. I would much rather be the revolutionist/barbarian in this situation(not in todays society, however). I say this because at this time, human rights were being abused, and bringing back the old rulers would not solve the problem.
-Tayg
This quote is referring to how sometimes to retain what is all civil, you must act barbaric. In this case, these "barbarians" acted like savages to retain something that was completely civil. This quote is also elaborating on how though they looked barbaric, they were still saviours. It seems like it's a decision. You can either become this "barbarian" type person and wish for organization of government; they are wishing for good, even if they don't look it. There are also people who seem to be very complex and very sophisticated, in that they are dressed very professioinally, with their fancy clothing choices, and their rich appearance. Though they might look the part of someone who is completely sophisticated, they are not like the "barbaric people" in the sense that they are wishing for war and wishing for such negative aspects as slave labor, death penalties, and ignorance. It seems that they are the most barbaric of all...
Now, which one would I choose to be?:
I think that I would rather look like a barbarian, and appear naive to anything sophisticated, but still wnat what is best for the world and for my country. I feel like though I look like I am a naive young person, I do feel like my opinions on society seem very sophisticated. Sometimes I even feel like my opinions are more elaborate and sophisticated than some of the most aristocratical people...I feel like I would much rather be a "barbarian" in this description.
The quote means that there are the Radicals, the Revolutionaries, the people who have been repressed and want change, they fight for their rights and do it even in violent manners like in the brricades. Then, there are the rich, the privilged,well off, the people who are happy with the status quo and do not want to help the poor or help the society improve.These people may acct mild tempered and civilized because they are not out fighting for others right's in the streets, but the reality is,in my opinion, I view these people as barbarians, for they are too selfish, too weak, too much of cold hearted people, to care for others in the community, and (during France in that time, there were many poor and suferring people, people who could not get out of that rut.) to fight for what may perhaps there conscience is telling them is the right thing to do, but are more afraid of the government taking away alll their riches than their conscience huanting them at night.
I would have to agree with the barbaric civilizstion for they are much more brave and virtuous than the civilized barbarians. The barbarians may be horrible and rude and violent, but they fight for what they believe in.
I think this passage means that some times one must lower themselves in society's eyes in order to fight for what is right.
It is the choice between getting involved or staying out of a sticky situation.
"We were compelled to choose between the barbarians of civilization, and the civilisees of barbarism..."
I enjoy this style of quote. It sums everything up in a very delicate way. :-D
There's a huge amount of irony in these three paragraphs. It presents that the saviors of civilization, those who ultimatly push the world progressivly forward, do so in the most barbaric means. In contrast however, those who fight for the alternative, the conservative peoples clinging to the old ways of governing and existing, present themselves in the most civilized and established mannor. This is not only a reflection of the flaws in French society during this time, but is applicable to ourselves and eachother. I am proud to say that I am a barbarian, because I will take any means to protect what I love and believe in.
Just looking at society and change in history, the pattern holds. Evil deeds tend to be discreet and gradual, often going unnoticed or unopposed for the longest. Yet the acts of good, of opposition, nine times out of ten are violent, bloody, and sudden. A revolution is justified by its neccesity; yet, in the same way it is barbaric in every way. Is it not more barbaric that human kind should treat eachother unequaly?
The quote is speaking of the two factions of history. The revolutionaries, and the content.
The revolutionaries are the barbarians. Those who froth at the mouth with ardour for their beliefs. The men who would do all in their power to bring about what they believe will be utopia. The means to achieve the ends of this are justified. Whether by force, fear, or diplomacy.
The content on the other hand merely wish to keep the status quo, and sit comfortably in the present.
Given a choice, I would take the barbarian, for at least then I have a chance at achieving a utopia, while the civilized wishes only for the mediocere.
The qoute is saying that the other men were rich men and did not need to be babaric but civilized, but they want to keep those traits. The poor men wanted change they did not like the way they were living they were babaric but they had no choice because of the way they were living their lives. The poor men wanted a revolution in their lives they hated the way they lived but for some reason the rich men wanted to keep things that way because they like that style of living because they had money so nothing else mattered to them.
One of the anonymous people made me think... this quote supports "ends justify the means." I don't believe that. I think it is okay to be hated and thought crazy to persue your beliefs - but I don't think its ok to murder and do wrong for good means. If I really HAD to make a choice, I'd choose the barbarians, but it's not that clear-cut. I would prefer to fight with my intelligence - to let what I say be so true and great, that it does not take evil to get good. Unlike several other people who have commented, I don't want to create a utopia if I have to get it by killing and doing evil. As I said, if I had to join a side, I'd join the barbarians - but I don't have to. I'd rather fight for good with all my strength, but with good ways than fight for good using evil.
-MM9
It is obvious from this passage that when people don't have basic human rights, they become barbarians of civilization. This means that the only way they can make their situation and ideas known to the government is through violence and rebellion. People who lead comfortable lives, however, are completely satisfied with the status quo because they benefit from it. These are known as civilized barbarians because they stay in compliance with the law even when they know it is causing so much grief and hardships to others. This shows that they are the true barbarians because they are going against their integrity, or the duty they know they have to help other human beings. In other words, they are just being dishonest to themselves so that they can continue to lead their greedy and selfish lives.
From the comments mentioned above, it is clear that I would rather be a barbarian of civilization then go against what my core beliefs and values are just to have personal gain. It is far better to honestly stand up for what one believes and die for it, rather then die a dishonest coward from not doing so.
-DAL7
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